In 1942 the US and Britain had more than three divisions in battle against Germany, but certainly not yet twenty to fight against Germany for French territory. They are some intresting thoughts. The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. After the Japanese invasion in September 1940, the French were forced to allow the Japanese to set up military bases. Darlan believed that the Germans would inevitably win the war and did all he could to keep the Vichy regime in Hitler’s good graces. Vichy France or Vichy Regime hadn´t a real war against the allies. De Gaulle built a strong political base, but Giraud failed to do so and was displaced by de Gaulle. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? At that point, the Vichy regime became entirely a puppet of the German occupiers. In a bizarre twist, Darlan was assassinated in Algiers by a French monarchist, obviating the need for the Allies to deal with this malodorous turncoat. Initially, Winston Churchill was ambivalent about de Gaulle and dropped ties with Vichy only when it became clear that it would not fight the Germans. Hindsight is great 75 years after the fact, but in June 1940, there weren’t too many options. The … Dec 6, 2020 #44 McPherson. Hopefully others will have something to contribute. The Pétain government pledged that the fleet would never fall into German hands, but refused to send the fleet beyond Germany's reach, either to Britain, or even to far away territories of the French Empire, such as the West Indies. Nevertheless, de Gaulle convinced Churchill to allow his forces to participate, but de Gaulle was forced to agree to a joint British-Free French proclamation promising that Syria and Lebanon would become fully independent at the end of the war. At others, they fought to the very last (it seems that individual commanders' wills and sympathies were the defining factor). After all, France had signed an armistice with Adolf Hitler on June 22, 1940, within weeks of being overrun by German soldiers. Unsurprisingly, Vichy severed diplomatic relations on 8 July. The soldiers themselves were French, but were wearing the nazi insignia, and fought alongside the Germans in every theatre of war. This would clear the Axis Powers from North Africa, improve naval control of the Mediterranean Sea, and prepare an invasion of Southern Europe in 1943. ", This page was last edited on 7 December 2020, at 10:32. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? Consequently, Force H opened fire on the French ships, killing 1,297 French military personnel, including nearly 1,000 French sailors when the Bretagne blew up. In June 1941, the next flashpoint between Britain and Vichy France came when a revolt in Iraq was put down by British forces. While tightly controlled by the Nazi regime, Vichy France was permitted the means to defend its African colonies against foreign invasion. To what extent did the Western Allies pursue an essentially ‘Italy & Vichy France First’ policy from mid 1940-43? British troops would go on to come to blows with Vichy forces during Operation Torch. The latter wanted to pursue a political position in France and agreed to have Giraud as commander in chief, as the more qualified military person of the two. by waldzee » 08 May 2012, 12:26, Post Instead of welcoming American troops with brass bands, Vichy France’s colonial forces fought back with everything they had. It is questionable that he ordered that many French resistance leaders who had helped Eisenhower's troops be arrested, without any protest by Roosevelt's representative, Robert Murphy. Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Greater cooperation between the … 1 decade ago. Your claim Hitler would not allow the French to fight the Allies is without historical precedent and contrary to Hitler's stated and actual actions. After Darlan signed an armistice with the Allies and took power in North Africa, Germany invaded Vichy France on 10 November 1942 (operation code-named Case Anton), triggering the scuttling of the French fleet in Toulon. Numerous Jewish children were prohibited from going to school, something which not even Vichy had implemented in metropolitan France. Vichy France will accept this loss of territory as a delayed, but still inevitable result of the war they were in previously (Special rule). The political situation during Khalkin Gol and the Vichy situation is quite different where one happened before the countries or its allies were at war with each other and the latter happened when Germany, France's occupant at the time was at war with the Allied powers. Germany wanted food, minerals, and industrial productions, as well as volunteers to work in German factories. In time, the majority of the colonies tended to switch to the Allied side peacefully in response to persuasion and to changing events. The existence of Vichy France was one reason why the Germans did not invade Spain in an effort to capture Gibraltar. Post … They were not fighting for France when they attacked Allied troops, they were fighting for Vichy France, a Nazi puppet state in France. It was an independent ally of Nazi Germany however that was a small part and the majority of the French fought the Nazis throughout their occupation of France . When the Germans occupied the puppet Vichy state of southern France on November 11 1942, Corsica, occupied by France since 1768 after having been previously part of the Italian city state of Genoa, was returned to Italy, and Italy's territorial acquisitions in the French provinces of Savoy and Provence dating from 1940 were also enlarged by the Germans after November 11 1942. During the battle for Dakar, Vichy had launched retaliatory bombing raids on Gibraltar, causing fairly minor damage but killing several civilians. The idea that Vichy France was just a puppet state is a myth of post-war France. They turned to Henri Giraud shortly before the landing on 8 November 1942. To what extent did the French Resistance assist in the allies liberation of France? Steve. Later, the Americans sent Jean Monnet to counsel Giraud and to press him into repeal the Vichy laws. Sid... thanks. Because they were duty-bound as members of the French armed forces to obey the orders of the legal Government of France. The middle & upper classes saw the chaos of the 1940 defeat as nearly the worst thing possible, with its contiuation as the worst thing. As far as the French are concerned yes part of the Nation was pro-Germany, Vichy France (French: Régime de Vichy) is the common name of the French State (État français) headed by Marshal Philippe Pétain during World War II. ... On a role of 1-2 the Vichy forces will fight the Allied landing. How did Vichy France come to be? 2 0. The Government of Vichy France was the collaborationist ruling regime or government in Nazi-occupied France during the Second World War.Of contested legitimacy, it was headquartered in the town of Vichy in occupied France, but it initially took shape in Paris under Maréchal Philippe Petain as the successor to the French Third Republic in June 1940. After very difficult negotiations, Giraud agreed to suppress the racist laws, and to liberate Vichy prisoners of the South Algerian concentration camps. This seemingly subservient behavior convinced the regime of Major-General Plaek Pibulsonggram, the Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Thailand, that Vichy France would not seriously resist a confrontation with Thailand. The allies tried to keep Pétain away from the germans. BELFAST said: You would need to the Soviets to be much stronger economically. 0 0. The Cremieux decree, which granted French citizenship to Jews in Algeria and which had been repealed by Vichy, was immediately restored by General de Gaulle. It was there to help control the French population and add minor military support to the Germans. [2] Vichy France never joined the Axis alliance, however. On October 22, 1940, Pierre Laval met with Hitler to set up a meeting on October 24 between Hitler and Pétain. they fought against the allied landings in north africa in 1942 (operation torch) they caused about 500 american casualties before the vichy french commanders in the area … Last but not least being in the Vichy camp didn't sit well with everyone and there's a big difference between paying lip service to the idea that a part of France was unoccupied and that's what you were loyal to and actually joining the Axis to fight against the Allies. Germany made Vichy France have its French armies and navies to fight the allies in French colonies. Quote; Link to post Share on other … Guadeloupe and Martinique in the West Indies, as well as French Guiana on the northern coast of South America, did not join the Free French until 1943. by Carl Schwamberger » 08 May 2012, 23:30, Post In March 1945, after mainland France had been liberated and the war situation looking increasingly grim for the Japanese, they staged a coup d'état in French Indochina and dissolved it, creating puppet states of its constituent parts. ammianus. Hence much of the indecision of the French leaders. This will probably lead up to a painful steamrolling of France by Germany. However France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. The French State, popularly known as Vichy France, as led by Marshal Philippe Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, as well as by the Soviet Union, until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa. However, Germany never bothers to take back Vichy France's territories in Africa, they only attack metropolitan France. [8] Darlan was assassinated on 24 December 1942 and so Washington turned again towards Giraud, who was made High Commissioner of French North and West Africa. I depend on what you call “the French”. US General Mark W. Clark of the combined Allied command signed a deal with Admiral Darlan on 22 November 1942 a deal in which the Allies recognized Darlan, as high commissioner for North and West Africa. Other French colonies had the decision to switch sides enforced more strenuously. However France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. The allies were surprised by the Vichy garrison to defense of the colony, having expected them to change side without opposition. by The_Enigma » 08 May 2012, 09:00, Post Vichy aircraft had already bombed Gibraltar on 18 July in retaliation for the attack at Mers-el-Kébir. False rumours abounded that France had made major concessions regarding colonies and German control of French ports and the French fleet. Vichy France. Less than two weeks after the armistice, Britain had fired upon forces of its former ally. 2 0. Vice-Admiral Somerville, with Force H under his command, was instructed to deal with the large squadron in port at Mers El Kébir harbor near Oran in July 1940. Free French and the Allied forces recaptured the colony's capital of Djibouti at the end of 1942. [12] Even De gaulle was sentenced to death by the Vichy Government. Admiral Jean de Laborde was in command of the French warships based there. Both the Free French and Vichy French pretended to be “the French” at this time. Explore the dramatic and unexpected defeat of the French forces in WW2. 888 Words 4 Pages The French Resistance (La Résistance française) was a collaboration of individual movements against the German occupation of France and the Vichy regime that complied with the Nazis during World War II. The Vichy French Military were the armed forces of Vichy France, which was founded in 1940, and it lasted until 1942, when the Germans occupied Vichy France during Operation Anton. Afterwards, the Soviet Chargé d’Affaires in Vichy, Alexander Bogomolov, maintained contacts with the Vichy Regime. Of course from an allied point of view they were considered as freedom fighters and they were welcomed under their own colours , as part of Monty's army in North Africa or fighting with the Americans (1st Free French armored Division in Alsace for instance) . This occurred through a series of consultations between Giraud and de Gaulle. Although Vichy France was nominally in control of all of France–apart from Alsace Lorraine–in practice the Germans controlled over half of the country, including the northern and western coasts, the industrial northeast, and the Paris region. Think of it as similar to the invasion of Kuwait in 1991, "Desert Storm", … Vichy France will defect to the Allies. Roosevelt and Churchill accepted Darlan, rather than de Gaulle, as the French leader in North Africa. In October 1940, the military forces of Thailand initiated border skirmishes across the border with Indochina, which escalated into Franco-Thai War. General Henri Giraud had switched from Vichy to the Allies and Roosevelt found him a preferable alternative to de Gaulle. Last but not least being in the Vichy camp didn't sit well with everyone and there's a big difference between paying lip service to the idea that a part of France was unoccupied and that's what you were loyal to and actually joining the Axis to fight against the Allies. An attack on French North Africa was proposed instead. The Vichy regime, proclaimed by Marshall Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, including the USSR until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa.However, Vichy France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. Almost all died at the hands of the Allies, not the Germans. This was however not the end for the French Air Force. The French fought the Allies in North Africa in November 1942, but never saw real conflict before Vichy France was taken over by the Allies in 1944. Hitler was impressed with Petain's commitment to defend the French Empire. Post by michael mills » 19 May 2012, 02:43 When the Germans first moved into the Unoccupied Zone on 11 November 1942, the order to deploy into divisional redoubts was given by, I think, the deputy chief of staff, and movements began. The essential American position was that France should take no action not explicitly required by the armistice terms that could adversely affect Allied efforts in the war. Her … In the early stages of East African Campaign in 1940, constant border skirmishes occurred between the forces in French Somaliland and the forces in Italian East Africa. http://www.chars-francais.net/new/index ... &Itemid=41, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_ ... K%C3%A9bir, http://www.h-net.org/~diplo/reports/SFH ... _Paper.pdf, http://www.ledrame-merselkebir.fr/drame1en.html?ml=1. Vichy France controlled North Africa. The first combat of the Vichy French military against the Allies was during Operation Torch, during the North Africa invasion. The Vichy France soldiers had completely defeated the Allies who misjudged their morale and combat abilities. Update: and i mean french vs french (vichy) (Free) Answer Save. American President Franklin Delano Roosevelt suspected the operation in North Africa would rule out an invasion of Europe in 1943 but agreed to support British Prime Minister Winston Churchill. By November 27th, the Germans had reached the naval base of Toulon. I know my second world war history very well but the other day while reading about vichy frances role i became curios if the free french forces lead by charles de gaul ever fought the vichy french forces lead by phillipe Petain. The French State, popularly known as Vichy France, as led by Marshal Philippe Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, as well as by the Soviet Union, until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa. Wasn't it the attack on the French fleet anchored in Mers El Khebir (Operation Catapult) , taking the life of 1250+ French sailors, which turned French citizens into "Anti-British" ? It was agreed that the Free French would be explicitly excluded from the operation, due to tensions which had arisen from French forces fighting each other in Syria previously. Admittedly it was also badly botched by Free French/British. The Allies discussed their general strategy for the war, and recognized joint leadership of North Africa by Giraud and de Gaulle. – Tea Drinker Jan 14 '14 at 15:52. When the Allies invaded North Africa in 1942, an enraged Hitler canceled the peace accord he had arranged with Vichy in 1940 and took measures to occupy all of France. Britain was expected to be a neutral or allied to Germany). Top. by murx » 11 May 2012, 10:46, Post Or sources? Hitler did not trust Vichy France and especially Petain. It ended in a much-publicized handshake between the two, but in fact their discussions had been entirely general and no decisions had been made. On 23 September 1940, the British launched the Battle of Dakar, also known as Operation Menace, part of the West Africa Campaign. Lv 4. By 25 September, the battle was over, the plan was unsuccessful, and Dakar remained under Vichy French control. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs.... To answer the original question from another perspective... because the Germans literally had a gun at the head of the French in Europe. [13] The admiral was assassinated on 24 December 1942 in Algiers by the young monarchist Bonnier de La Chapelle, probably acting as part of a conspiracy involving Henri, Count of Paris. Germany made Vichy France have its French armies and navies to fight the allies in French colonies. Because he had little choice. by waldzee » 08 May 2012, 16:07, Post 10 years ago. But Vichy French with the core of the colonial army: yes absolutely. The invasion, known as Operation Torch, was launched after the Soviet Union had pressed the United States and Britain to start operations in Europe, and open a second front to help reduce the pressure of German forces on the Russian troops. Vichy was allowed to control its foreign colonies—to the extent it could defend them against the Free French—as well as its fleet, to the extent it could defend it against British naval attacks. They even recognized Vichy as the french government until 1941/42. by Sid Guttridge » 08 May 2012, 12:54, Post On a 3-6 they refuse to fight and join the Allied side (this can be change to 1-3, and 4-6 if the odds don’t seem fair). I understand why the Vichy government in Metropolitan France opposed the Allies (at least publicly) but why did French colonies like Madagascar fight back? The Battle of France, in which the German victory led to the fall of the Third Republic in May and June 1940. Even though he was now in the Allied camp, Darlan maintained the repressive Vichy system in North Africa, including concentration camps in southern Algeria and racist laws. The Vichy French fought the allies in Africa, Syria, and even Madagascar. Edit Vichy France existed during the second world war as a Nazi puppet state, half of its territory (North West) was occupied by German's army while the rest of it was considered "free". To counter the Vichy regime, General Charles de Gaulle created the Free French Forces (FFL) after his Appeal of 18 June 1940 radio speech. Even after the battles were fought, however, Vichy France did not join the war, and the Vichy French troops engaged there were usually repatriated by the Allies after operations were over. Why did France collapse just six weeks after Hitler's initial assault? French General Henri Giraud was slipped out of Vichy France, offered the post of commander in chief of French forces in North Africa after the invasion. With the Vichy leaders gone from French territory, on 23 October 1944, the U.S., Britain and the Soviet Union formally recognized the Provisional Government of the French Republic (GPRF), headed by de Gaulle, as the legitimate government of France. ... the occupation of Vichy France in response to Operation Torch, the Allied invasion of French North Africa. The Syrian capital, Damascus, was captured on 17 June and the five-week campaign ended with the fall of Beirut and the Armistice of Saint Jean d'Acre on 14 July 1941. ... April, and May 1940. While a few French colonies went over to the Free French immediately, many remained loyal to Vichy France. The British feared that Japanese Navy might use Madagascar as a base and thus cripple British trade and communications in the Indian Ocean. Yes, but the idea was that the invasion of Vichy Colonies would result in Petain and the Vichy French people rallying behind war, as well as an alliance with Germany as they would be seen fighting for the same cause. Additionally, it was believed that the Free French were widely reviled within Vichy military circles and that Vichy forces in Syria were less likely to resist the British if they were not accompanied by elements of the Free French. This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by the Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day. At some beaches, the Vichy French refused to fight the Allies and joined them. I'd heard fragments about the plans, including a French general who attempted to execute a occupation of Bourdeux in November 1942. 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